Godless Nations Face Inevitable Suffering, KC Offers True Solution

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Sita Ram Singh: I came from Delhi. I got down here: "I want only darśanas." Prabhupāda: [Transl. Sit down.]

Sita Ram Singh: He told me, "He's not keeping good health..." "Of course, I won't speak to him, but simply I will have his darśana." Because you are superhuman being... [Prabhupāda chuckles] Everyone wants a blessing of persons like you. What you have done, and to remember these things... One feels himself satisfied only after having your darśana.

Sita Ram Singh: No, I belong to Bihar. I come from the constituency [Transl. of Śrī Jagjīvanrām. I was the President of the District Congress Committee there. I was a deligate of the Bihar Pradesh Congress Committee. When Jagjīvana Bābu left Congress, I too left. I have left with two thousand workers.]

Sītā Rām Singh: [Transl. Then I followed CFDE. Congress For Democracy. As it merged in Janta party. I truly…I often live with Jagjivana Babu. I treat him like chief guest there.] On the way I got down here, and I was so fortunate [Transl. to have your darśana. He is my relation. He is posted here as the Magistrate at Mathura. He will be subscribed today and so I have put up with him. [indistinct] ...he told me, "You can have your prasāda here." But "I shall take a part of prasāda." But the prasāda what I want, I want darśana. And if you have got any sympathy for me, kindly... Prabhupāda: I have got sympathy for everyone. Sita Ram Singh: Ah, yes. Prabhupāda: Unfortunately, nobody cares to obey it. Sita Ram Singh: That's right. You are right. Prabhupāda: They have their own program. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ [SB 7.5.31]. Blind men leading blind men. You realize that your Constitution is defective? Sita Ram Singh: Yes, of course. Prabhupāda: Then what is the use of changing? The same instrument... So our proposal is that unless the means are perfect, the end cannot be perfect. So we are presenting, therefore, the means of Bhagavad-gītā, perfect, everything. But they are manufacturing their own way. There are so many parties—Ch.D., D.A.C., Ph.D.... Sita Ram Singh: [laughs] All they have got is party for their own selfish end. Actually it's taking north to south. Though I belong to one of the party, but I must see the truth before them. Because they have all got their own selfish aims. Prabhupāda: They are interested to keep the new position of the party. Who is thinking of the public? Public is in the same distressed condition. Sita Ram Singh: Same distressed. Prabhupāda: Rather, they are more distressed. Take, for example, in our childhood my father's income was, utmost, three hundred rupees. So we were not very rich men, but we had no want. Father was maintaining his family, getting children married, distributing the wealth. Everything very nice. And we never felt any want. In this mango season, because father's hobby that "There must be a full basket of mangoes daily for the children," so we were jumping, playing and eating mangoes. And now, taking consideration of gold standard... At that time my mother was purchasing gold, twenty rupees... Sita Ram Singh: Per tolā [10 grams]. Prabhupāda: Twenty-two rupees. Sītā Rām Singh: Twenty-two rupees. That's all. Prabhupāda: Now the same gold is six hundred rupees. So three hundred times more? Sita Ram Singh: Yes. Prabhupāda: If my father's income was three hundred rupees, increased by three hundred, it becomes nine thousand. So where is the nine-thousand-rupees income for a middle-class man? Sita Ram Singh: Right. Prabhupāda: Nine thousand rupees', ten thousand rupees' income is for very, very big man. But comparing, say, sixty, seventy years ago, we were a middle-class man. So a middle-class man has not increased his income from three hundred rupees to ten thousand rupees. That means everybody has become poor. So where is the advancement? Simply beating the drums, will this...? In our childhood we have seen mustard oil, first class, made in Kanpur. We were purchasing, eight annas per two and a half ser. Sita Ram Singh: And now it has gone fifteen rupees. Prabhupāda: Thirteen rupees. Sita Ram Singh: Thirteen rupees in our time. Prabhupāda: Ghee, first-class ghee, we were purchasing, one rupee, Bhadua ghee. Now what is the price of ghee? Indian man (1): Twenty-five. Sita Ram Singh: Twenty rupees. Indian man (1): Twenty, twenty-five. Between twenty and twenty-five, depending upon the place. Prabhupāda: That means between twenty-five to thirty times, the price has increased. But income has not increased. Indian man (1): Not in the real sense. Prabhupāda: No sense. All nonsense. Indian man (1): No sense. Not at all. Sita Ram Singh: No sense. No sense at all. Prabhupāda: Simply nonsense. So what is remedy? Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ [SB 7.5.31]. All over the world... Of course, we do not want to criticize, but according to śāstra, people will suffer more and more. And they must suffer, because they are becoming godless. They must suffer. That is nature's punishment. daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ [Bg 7.14] They won't take the real culture given by God Himself, Kṛṣṇa, "Do like this." Therefore they are godless. They must suffer. Now the suffering is awaiting to the general mass of people. Durbhikṣa... Anāvṛṣṭi-durbhikṣa-kara-pīḍitāḥ [SB 12.2.9]. There will be no rain from the sky, and therefore there will be no sufficient grains. Anāvṛṣṭi-durbhikṣa. And in the name of improving the situation, government will tax. Kara-pīḍitāḥ. In this way, so the people in general, they'll be so much harassed that without being able to manage things... Ācchinna-dāra-draviṇā gacchanti giri-kānanam. "Let whatever I may have to the family eating. Let me go." This is the position. Sita Ram Singh: What will be the future of India? Prabhupāda: This is be future. Anywhere. Why you are speaking of India? What is spoken in the śāstra, that is not for India or for Bihar. It is for everywhere. Sita Ram Singh: And the situation is going from bad to worse. Will it go... Prabhupāda: Yes. And at the end there will be no wheat, no rice, no sugar, no milk, and you'll have to eat... I shall eat your flesh; you shall eat my flesh. They are eating already fetus of their own sons. What is that? Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In some countries in the West... Prabhupāda: Do they not? Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In some countries in the West they perform this operation for... What do they call it? Indian man (1): Abortion. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Abortion. They have legalized abortion. So the unborn fetus, after it's aborted, they're eating as food. Sita Ram Singh: They have devised also even in India also. I don't know about... Prabhupāda: Therefore I said, "Why do you speak of this country?" This will happen everywhere. Sita Ram Singh: [Transl. If such sinful activities will take place] how one can expect betterment of the nation? Prabhupāda: [Transl. Sin? How much sin have you seen so far? Nothing. So much more sin will be there. Won't they suffer? ] prakṛteḥ kriya... [Bg 3.27] Indian man (1): Is there any way out? Prabhupāda: There will be Kṛṣṇa consciousness... Why don't you come? You'll not come. You'll stick to your own principle. Here is the way out: mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ [Bg 7.14]. "No." You'll make your own party, that's all, and suffer. What can be done? You'll never take good advice from Kṛṣṇa. You'll take advice from Indira Gandhi. That's it. Sita Ram Singh: This is the reason of this discontentment. Prabhupāda: [Transl. They have nothing. All are poor. andha yathandhair… I don't want to say. If I say you will be offended. But the fact is that one blind man is leading another blind man. It is written explicitly.] Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ [SB 7.5.31]. Prabhupāda: They are trying to adjust things by the external feature. [Transl. There are many things to say. People don't want to understand. And if I try to explain them they become angry. upadeśo hi mūrkhānāṁ prakopāya na śāntaye or by instructing a fool, he simply becomes angry. [Cāṇakya Paṇḍit]. What to do? The remedy is there.] Come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and be happy. Sītā Rām Singh: [Transl. The remedy is there, but from the beginning the path...] Prabhupāda: [Transl. What from the beginning, do it from now. Whatever has happened, has happened. Everyone makes mistake. But why to continue the same mistake?] Sītā Rām Singh: [Transl. Yes. Mistake should be rectified.] Prabhupāda: [Transl. Yes. If mistake has been committed then accept it and rectify it. You will be successful. But "no, my mistake will go on." So go on. This is the point. The Supreme Personality of Godhead has said "Don't worry. Whatever has happened, has happened," sarva dharman parityajya mam ekam… [Bg 18.66]] Sītā Rām Singh: mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja Prabhupāda: [Transl. Nobody is following. ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo, you must have committed sin, so many mistakes you made, so much mischief you played.] "I will excuse you." But who cares for You? [Transl. "Who is this God, Kṛṣṇa, I am God." He is God!] Sītā Rām Singh: [Transl. Sinful mentality doesn't go away from the mind. It is a bad habit.] Prabhupāda: [Transl. All are rascals. If I tell, you will feel bad, but actually all are rascals. mūḍhāḥ. na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ [Bg 7.15] …..those who are lowest among mankind, and most sinful, they do not follow the order of God. na māṁ prapadyante. But they are very learned! māyayāpahṛta-jñānā, they have no knowledge. They are learned in the name only. And whatever ABCD they learned, that also Māyā has taken away. māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. Why like that? āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. They are envious of God. "What is God? We will kill Him." Kaṁsa's philosophy. "Oh, as soon as Kṛṣṇa takes birth let me know. I will kill Him immediately." This is the demoniac policy. asuri bhavam…] Sītā Rām Singh: [Transl. The mentality Kaṁsa had, now everyone is having such mentality. [laughs]. Prabhupāda: [Transl. There must be. Nature will not spare you, no matter how big wrestler you are.] prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg 3.27]. That is nature's arrangement. ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate. He is a rascal who is thinking, "I am independent." Rascal number one. Everyone is thinking, "Ah! I am independent." What is their independence? Hmm? [Transl. This is the foolishness. They will not hear. If we give good advice…. upadeśo hi mūrkhānāṁ prakopāya na śāntaye. [Cāṇakya Paṇḍit] By giving instructions to foolish men, they simply become angry. What to do? Now we have started this mission. It is here. Hear with attention what the Supreme Lord is saying. And tell others about it. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission that all of you become guru. This is the order of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. You are a Bihari, a neighbor of West Bengal. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission is, He is saying; āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. ...In whichever country, whichever village, whichever family, whichever community people have taken birth, deliver them and thus become a guru. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa... You don't have to travel all over the world. Those who have capacity they…..wherever you live, preach there only and deliver them. You become a guru. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. That you become a guru and wherever you live, you deliver them. So one may argue "how can I become a guru? I don't know anything. I don't know what do I have to do? How can I become a guru?" He says "no, no. Don't be afraid. To become a guru is very simple." "How?" He says "yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa" ….. Whatever instructions Kṛṣṇa has given, you preach that to others. That's all. Then you will be a Guru." Not that you produce gold, show magic, swindle or cheat people. That is not a guru. Those fellows are all cheaters. yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa... What Kṛṣṇa said, you tell to others. You are a guru. Is it very difficult for us to repeat what Kṛṣṇa has spoken? It's all written in Bhagavad-gītā. We just have to repeat it. Then we become guru. What do I speak? All these foreigners have come here, did I bribe them, or produced gold or showed some magic? I simply told them, "look, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28] or Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead", and they have accepted it. "Worship Him. Build His temple." And they worship Him in the temple. Kṛṣṇa says; manmanā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65] ["Always think of Me and become My devotee. Worship Me and offer your homage unto Me. Thus you will come to Me without fail. I promise you this because you are My very dear friend."]... Someone may argue "these people are Mlecchas and Yavanas. How they can serve the Supreme Lord?" The Lord says, "māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ [Bg 9.32] Don't worry. Sinful people? So what?" These facts are there. These people are bad? On the other hand, some hypocrite comes and says "Sir, the meaning of Kurukṣetra is this, and the meaning of Gītā is nonviolence." And people accept it. "Oh! What a great speaker!" You see. What Kṛṣṇa says that they kickout. And whatever the fool says, they accept it.] Sītā Rām Singh: [Transl. It happens because of prejudice from previous lives?] Prabhupāda: [Transl. Nothing from previous life. Simply rascaldom. From this life only. Why do you go to previous life? See the rascaldom of this life, and you suffer. No need to go so far. In the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā it is said; dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ [Bg 1.1] Two parties have gathered together with a desire to fight. They came to fight. Where is nonviolence? See how they interpret? What a big rascal! Answer?] Sītā Rām Singh: [Transl. Lord Kṛṣṇa was personally watching everything there. When Arjun...] Prabhupāda: [Transl. First of all you see. These words, dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ. What is the meaning of yuyutsava? Answer? Wanting to fight. They have assembled there to fight. And nonviolence! Is that the correct meaning? This person interprets in one way, that person interprets in another way, and another person interprets in yet another way. They all have speculated and interpreted as they liked and sent the public to hell. Kurukṣetra is still present today. Railway station? And in the scriptures Kurukṣetra is addressed as Dharmakṣetra. Cultivation of religious principle is still going on there even today. Whenever there is an eclipse, millions of people go there to take a holy dip. And they say it is the body! This is going on. They misguide others and they themselves are misguided. Try to rectify all this. Then your leadership will have some meaning. Otherwise, andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ] Sītā Rām Singh: [laughs] Leadership is always in danger in politics. [Transl. I have a doubt. Kindly clear it. Lord Kṛṣṇa…., when Arjuna layed down his bow and arrows and didn't want to fight the battle, seeing that the opponents were his friends, grandfather and so forth, and he strongly declined to fight then Kṛṣṇa told him "look, these people are already dead. See all of them dead within My body. You are simply an instrument. So if he was just an instrument, then why did Kṛṣṇa choose Arjuna only as an instrument?] Prabhupāda: [Transl. You could not understand it?] Sītā Rām Singh: [Transl. No.] Prabhupāda: [Transl. Arjuna was a kṣatriya. It is the duty of a kṣatriya to fight.] Sītā Rām Singh: [Transl. Yes. Yes. To fight. Kṛṣṇa said "you are running away from fight. That's why you are….He told him that.] Prabhupāda: [Transl. This Vedic civilization of brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, if anyone is to be killed, the brāhmaṇa will not kill.] Sītā Rām Singh: [Transl. Yes. The kṣatriya will kill.] Prabhupāda: [Transl. They will put that responsibility on kṣatriyas. Take for example, Viśvāmitra. He was very disturbed by a witch in the jungle. Do you think Viśvāmitra had no power to kill her? No! He had! But he approached King Daśaratha and said "Mahārāja, one witch is disturbing me so much. Kindly send Rāmachandra. Couldn't he have killed her? This is the point. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ [Bg 4.13] Everyone must perform their respective duties. [break] So all this knowledge that we have got in India, that you have kicked away. And you have created you own parties.] Sītā Rām Singh: [Transl. What to do Mahārājajī? That's why we are not happy.] Prabhupāda: [Transl. Nobody will be happy.] Sītā Rām Singh: [Transl. Nobody is happy] in spite of all the best efforts. Prabhupāda: [Transl. Such a profound knowledge we have in our country. We have locked it down. And simply by speculating we have spoiled everything. Neither has it been given to anyone in the world nor has it been utilized by us. This is the position. If at all you want to rectify it, then as you say, you read Bhagavad-gītā, you take Bhagavad-gītā and study it. Everything is there. See how everything will be successful. It will work. And this is the subject matter of our preaching.] We are preaching Bhagavad-gītā as it is. [Transl. You study and check the flaws and qualities. Like others we did not] compromise and give interpretation. [Transl. This is our philosophy. We are realizing that by this we being successful all over the world. In Africa, people with large ears chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and dance.] Sītā Rām Singh: [Transl. What happened in Africa?] Prabhupāda: [Transl. The tribals with big ears in Africa, they are extremely uncivilized, but they also dance "Hare Kṛṣṇa." This is my point. What do they know about Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa is God. They don't know anything. They also chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and dance.] Sītā Rām Singh: [Transl. So all, all over world...] Prabhupāda: [Transl. All over the world.] Sītā Rām Singh: [Transl. ...you have got this culture.] Prabhupāda: [Transl. This is such an important movement from India. But nobody helped me. It is so unfortunate. In America they gave me permanent residence. Not only me, but also they gave to so many Indians. But here they don't allow. This much they should help us. We make so many requests that why don't you adopt this policy of the foreigners? But no, "six months is over, now go back." Just see. Please help in this regard if you can. What have these innocent fellows done? And without them how can this movement go on, such a huge organization? No Indians come forward.] Sītā Rām Singh: They have come for this... Prabhupāda: [Transl. By their support I am pushing on this movement. And as soon as they come, "Okay, three months is over. Go back. What to do? I have to send these innocent people back. It costs ten thousand rupees each. I have wasted five, six lakhs rupees like that.] Sītā Rām Singh: [Transl. At least these people should be exempted, those who are residents they should be exempted. This rule should be exempted.] Prabhupāda: They have been described as Hindu, "Hindu Americans." [Transl. They come here, in the holy place of Vṛṇdāvana, and they are chased "get out, get out, get out." Then by whose support will I work? Here no young man will join. They get a job, a wife, and that's it. Life is successful. So many obstacles, dangers. These temples etc that we have constructed by spending lakhs and crores of rupees, this money was brought from the west.] Sītā Rām Singh: [Transl. From foreign?] Prabhupāda: [Transl. At least ten lakhs of rupees per month we bring. They sell books. I tell them "go and sell. Go and sell." They sell books and bring money. That money I bring and spend here. This is the fact. These people are assisting me, so at least give them permanent residence. Take gurrentee if required.] Sītā Rām Singh: [Transl. That is fair. If you find any anti national spirit...] Prabhupāda: [Transl. Then you throw them out.] Sītā Rām Singh: [Transl. …then you take guarantee.] Prabhupāda: [Transl. No. Nothing is there.] Indian man (2): No, but is there any difficulty for getting citizenship? Prabhupāda: No, no, no. We don't want citizenship. What they will do with citizen..., Indian citi...? Indian man (2): Then what is the difficulty? Prabhupāda: Difficulty is... Let them live here as permanent residents, just like I am American permanent resident. I am not citizen. If I like, I can become citizen. But what is the use of becoming citizen? It is as good as citizen. [Transl. The permament residents give a report yearly that we live here. That's all.] Sītā Rām Singh: [Transl. The period of visa granted to them], within that period they have to go back? Indian man (2): [Transl. Do they apply that we are extending our stay?] Sītā Rām Singh: [Transl. Yes, of course, they have to go back, but... Prabhupāda: No, extension... [Transl. They come for three months and they get extension for another three months.] Generally. Indian man (2): They don't give you this for permanent residentship... Prabhupāda: No. Indian man (2): ...even, say, for two years, four years, five years. Not of that sort. Prabhupāda: No, no. No. Sītā Rām Singh: But they should amend it. [Transl. Okay. whatever it is] ...this should be amended. This must be amended. This should be brought to the knowledge of authorities. Prabhupāda: [Transl. Kindly you all do something about it. It is very essential. I get so much strain. My health broke down because of that.] Sītā Rām Singh: [Transl. Anti national, if their activities are not anti national then] why do they not allow them to stay to serve the mission? Prabhupāda: So we have no... We don't think anything in the... Sītā Rām Singh: Morarjibhai Sampatte, he's a religious-minded man. Prabhupāda: [Transl. So you kindly request him on our behalf. Who will listen to us?] Sītā Rām Singh: And he should make a point. But the case, if he gets time of course, [Transl. a representative of your mission should also be...] Indian man (2): [Transl. Was it rejected by the government that such and such..] Prabhupāda: [Transl. Many times. Thousands of times. Thousand..] Sītā Rām Singh: [Transl. Several times.] So he can relax it because he's in power, Morarjibhai is in power, whatever he has got... Prabhupāda: But who will induce him to relax? Sītā Rām Singh: [Transl. He has got religious mentality.] He can relax it. Prabhupāda: He can do everything, but who will induce him to do? Sītā Rām Singh: I don't know when I shall go to Delhi again, but in case if I go, I will bear it in mind. But meanwhile, I shall humbly request you that some of persons of your mission should also go and should bring him here so that he can find out a time to come to this mission. And because after seeing the all activities of the mission, he may be rather much more convinced of the fact that this restriction should be abolished. It is a special case. For the missionary purpose this should be abolished. Prabhupāda: Missionary visa [Transl. also they don't give. They do give to the foreigners. He is also a foreigner. but] because he's Vaiṣṇava, he'll not get. Sītā Rām Singh: [Transl. That six, seven lakhs of rupees are unnecessarily misused every year.] Prabhupāda: And just now I have got news. We have got a branch in Ceylon. So we thought that instead of going back to U.S.A. or Europe, let him go to Ceylon and renew the visa. So I hear that they have been forbidden, not to issue visa to our [Transl. persons. So far Indira Gandhi's policy was that let people practice their own religion.] Sītā Rām Singh: [Transl. No doubt that Indira Gandhi was a religious minded person. Indira Gandhi had...] Prabhupāda: [Transl. So her policy was also like that. But now you have to do something about this based on the constitution.] Sītā Rām Singh: [Transl. Constitution is the same.] Rather, the Constitution is molded from bad to worse. This point should be [Transl. raised there.] I have got belief on that. So this money... Prabhupāda: [Transl. Here we have established this by going through so many obstacles and problems. And there also. You must have heard. There also many impediments and problems. There was a court case. This happens often. It must be there because they see that Hindu religion is being spread. Very big institution. By worrying about this all the time my health has deteriorated. It's not working anymore.] Sītā Rām Singh: When I go next time to Delhi I shall write letter. I have got address of this mission here. I shall write a letter here, and one of the representatives will go. I will give that.... Prabhupāda: No, you can speak to Mr. Vajpayee. He is in charge of foreigners. [Transl. "Oh Sir, why don't you give them permament residence? What is their fault? They will not take a paisa of yours."] Indian man (2): [Transl. Now it is election time. After the election this issue can be…] Sītā Rām Singh: [Transl. This matter should be brought up.] This matter can be brought before Vajpayee because he is charge of the foreign affairs. Indian man (2): [Transl. Government, President should be in the mood of amendment. If he wants to live here, If somebody is living here then I mean… I understand. Rules needed certain amendment. And I think…] Sītā Rām Singh: [Transl. If a program could be arranged with Morarjibhai, with Atal Bihari Vajpayee…] [end]

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